I found out about The Church Lab on Twitter several years ago, and from the moment I knew what it was and what it hoped to be in the world, I wanted to be a part of it. 

In my professional life, I spend a lot of time analyzing institutions - how they function, what they value and how they communicate this, and how they form people. In my personal and professional life, I’ve seen how disoriented many communities feel in this political and cultural moment. The Church Lab is the perfect answer to this disorientation. It still values dialogue, understanding and peace above all else, and it refuses to treat disagreement as a basis for division.

What TCL is doing is novel, and still steeped in a deeply ordinary and human need for connection. In a time when many values-driven institutions find themselves retreating to polarization, branding, or othering, The Church Lab is doing something far more difficult and far more faithful. It is creating space for sacred listening, thoughtful humility, and peacebuilding through human connection and understanding.

Our organization eschews cynicism and the growing cultural desire to set down our responsibilities to each other. We take people seriously, we take their cultures and their beliefs seriously, and we understand that being understood is often more meaningful and formative than being “right.” 

How is a pastor from Buffalo connected to an organization based in Austin?  For me, the Church Lab is all about connections.  A few years ago I met a friend at an educational technology conference in Buffalo and we realized we had sung together at an interfaith event in Salt Lake City a few years before that - but we didn't meet until later.  That friend later reached out to me about joining the board of the Church Lab - a group that organizes dialogue opportunities, trains people for dialogue, and supports pastors in innovative projects.

I've been on the board for two years now and have been impressed by the work The Church Lab does, but also by the way it operates as an organization.  I've been to board meetings for many organizations and have had many unproductive meetings, but our board meetings are very productive, in part because we take the time to get to know each other and support each other in our daily lives and projects as well as work together on board objectives.

As a pastor and religion professor, I do a lot of interfaith engagement, but through The Church Lab I have experienced dialogue opportunities that bring together a diverse group of people - and in one case I was able to "meet" again with someone who helped me early in my career - all through The Church Lab.

In a time when many people feel cut off from others and afraid to talk about serious issues, I'm proud to support The Church Lab in its work to bring people together.

Last August I became a board member for "The Church Lab" (TCL). The mission of this organization is to "explore innovative paths of spiritual growth for all, discovering the Church's future, and the future of faith practice". 

As an exvangelical, finding my way back to my faith practice has been a challenge to say the least. My relationship with God was shaped as a kid in Presbyterian, Baptist, and Non-Denominational Bible Churches. I was taught that if you don't believe exactly what I believe, and if your faith practice isn't exactly the same as mine, then your faith tradition is wrong, mine is right, and therefore I am going to heaven and you are going to hell. I brought this mentality into my relationships, my workplace, my social groups, and held onto this certainty of truth with an iron fist - a fist which could be used as a weapon, as so often religion is.

One day, I was invited by my sister to attend something called "interfaith dialogue". This small group was a group of ladies who identified as a non-practicing Muslim, a practicing Muslim, a pair of conservative evangelical Christians (me and my sister), a Latter-day Saint, and Pastor Carrie, who eventually founded TCL a few years later. In dialogue, I first encountered the idea to "seek to understand before being understood". This simple phrase transformed what I understood of conversation, conflict, difference, and otherness. Dialogue helped me shed the "me vs. them" mentality and taught me the sacredness of humanity in all faith and non-faith traditions - something that church failed to do. I fully believe I am a better human being for the ways The Church Lab, and dialogue, have shaped my life.

TCL is a sanctuary for the religious and non-religious alike, for folks who have left church and for folks finding their way back, for those finding themselves disenchanted with religious institutions and for those whose bedrock is spiritual practice. In short, it's a space for everyone, and that is sacred indeed.

I've been a part of interfaith dialogue and activities since the late 1990s, but so often they were ad-hoc conversations, panel discussions, or ceremonies and vigils that offered the opportunity for fellowship and networking, but didn't focus on growth and spiritual development.  This is not to say that they were not valuable, but they frequently focused on commonalities and solidarity rather than offering the chance to deeply and, perhaps, critically explore both our own faiths (or lack thereof) and that of others.

Growing up Jewish and, later, finding my way into the modern Pagan community, almost everything I have ever done is interfaith.  Even my family was interfaith, with both Christian and Jewish relatives.  I grew up knowing that it was possible to form strong bonds between people of different faiths.

The Church Lab has made it clear to me that these bonds can form without familial relationships to guide them.  For ten years now, I've been in dialogue with members of various faith communities, with the spiritual but not religious, with those questioning their spiritual direction, and with atheists and agnostics.  These efforts have helped to hone my own understanding of my Pagan faith even as it has challenged me to understand the guiding philosophical and spiritual lights that shine for others.  

Three years ago, I was honored to be invited to join the TCL board as its first non-Christian member.  Since then, I have continued to be a part of the dialogue and done what I can to both assist in TCL's operation and to celebrate our successes.  As I begin my second term on the board in August 2025, I look forward to continuing to do so.

Even as I continue interfaith networking and solidarity efforts, TCL offers me a way to accompany them that explores spiritual growth and helps me to discover the future of my faith practices.  They work hand-in-hand to make me a better leader, a better companion, and a better person.

A little over a year ago, Carrie invited me to attend one of TCL’s interfaith dialogues. It was a space where people gathered in person and virtually to learn from one another around a set topic and explore how our faith traditions shape the way we relate to that topic. Several belief systems were represented that night — including one I had never even heard of before.

By the end of the evening, I had learned, grown, and formed relationships built on respect despite our differences. It was refreshing to spend two hours discussing faith and leave with deeper mutual respect rather than division.

So why would I — an evangelical Christian — choose to be part of an organization that opens dialogue to people of many faiths?

Because the mission field isn’t only inside the walls of my church. It isn’t limited to the people already in my circle.

Learning from Muslims, Jews, atheists, pagans, Baha’i believers, and others about what they believe regarding persecution, hope, joy, media, worship, and more has made me more aware of those just beyond my circle who see the world differently than I do. Through TCL, I’ve built friendships that allow me to talk about my own faith from a place of respect and understanding.

These gatherings also give me the opportunity to share the hope I have in Christ — to share Scripture and how God has worked in my life. Listening and sharing in that space has strengthened my confidence and sharpened my ability to engage in meaningful dialogue.

Our world is filled with division and hostility. The Church Lab teaches us how to narrow that divide — how to listen rather than simply seek to be understood.

TCL is a sanctuary for the religious and the non-religious alike — for those who have left church and for those finding their way back; for people disenchanted with religious institutions and for those whose lives are grounded in spiritual practice. It is a space for peacemakers and bridge-builders — for anyone hoping to re-enter conversations with people who hold differing beliefs.

In a climate where speaking across cultural, political, religious, and ideological differences can feel impossible, TCL creates space for authentic relationships. It offers practical tools for connection and understanding in an increasingly fragmented world.